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How To Make A Worm Farm Composting Bin

I finally had a chance to take some pictures showing the process of building one’s own composting bin for those looking to make a worm farm. The composting bins are built from a few Rubbermaid type storage bins allowing you to setup the perfect environment for a small worm farm to begin recycling food scraps, yard waste, cardboard, newspapers…

Before I begin with the instructions, you can purchase a ready made worm farm from a variety of manufacturers which will run you in the neighborhood of $60.00 to $140.00. I do not offer any of these units as from my own personal experience they are not designed correctly and advertise leachate (runoff from bins that are too wet) as worm tea. Worm tea is usually totally different than the leachate from the type of microbes (aerobic versus anaerobic) in each to the number of microbes…

I spent less than $25.00 for the materials to build this worm farm.

Materials and Tools Needed:

3 – Rubbermaid style bins and lids ( 10 gallon – 18 gallon)

4 –Tupperware style storage containers with lids (approx. 4” tall).

1 – Tape measure or ruler

2-3 Gallon bucket of Sphagnum Peat Moss

1 – Tablespoon of agricultural lime, ground up egg shells or ashes from some hard woods.

5 Gallon Bucket of dry Shredded newspaper and or cardboard.

1 – Drill

1 – 3/16” Drill bit

1 – 1/8” Drill bit

1-2 Pounds or composting worms (preferred worm for this method is the red wiggler)

The first step is to take two of the Rubbermaid style bins and drill holes approximately 3” apart on the entire surface area of the bottom using a 3/16” drill bit. These holes are for aeration and NOT for drainage. As I mentioned earlier, if you are getting liquids draining from your worm bin you are too wet and not only can kill off worms but invite unwanted bugs as well. For the sake of keep this from becoming confusing, I will reference these two Rubbermaid type bins as bin 1 and bin 2

how to make a worm farm

Next you can use the 1/8” drill bit to drill holes around the sides all the way around, towards the top of bin 1 and bin 2, approximately 1” apart. These are additional aeration holes.

how to build a worm farm

Now use the 1/8” drill bit to drill holes in one of the lids of the bins approximately 5” apart on the entire surface area.

composting bin

Next measure the height of your Tupperware type containers when laid in the third bin (lay in upside down with lids attached to each for stability). For instance, the small storage containers I used in these plans were 4” high. I then measured one inch less inside the third Rubbermaid type bin (we’ll call this one bin 3) from the bottom up. Using this height as a guide, I drilled 3/16” holes approximately 3” apart making sure to stay below the four inch height of my storage containers. This will enable air to pass under bin 1 or bin 2 when placed on top of the four Tupperware style containers. In short, notice the Tupperware style containers are taller than the line of aeration holes inside bin 3.

worm farm

Here I am suggesting some pre-dampened Sphagnum Peat Moss on your first worm bin. After your initial bin, you will want to use some of the existing bedding material from the previous bin as it will already be loaded with microbes however one must start somewhere! The purpose here is to create a comfort zone for your red wigglers. Many times people ask why their worms are trying to escape in their new setup. This will assist in keeping your worms happy while they adjust to their new surroundings!

You will only do this in bin 1. Simply place bin 2 aside for now as I will explain later.

Prior to dampening the Sphagnum Peat, add one tablespoon of agricultural lime, ash or eggshells and mix thoroughly as it is much easier dry than when dampened. Allow your damp peat to sit overnight to ensure it does not dry out since the peat acts like a slow absorbent sponge. If needed add additional moisture…

worm bedding

worm bedding materials

Dampen some shredded newspaper and or cardboard and place on top.

how to make a worm farm

Once the bedding is set, begin to add your food scraps to one corner of the worm composting bin by digging out a small area, placing your food scraps and covering with peat. By covering you will help to eliminate odors as well as some unwelcome pests!

what do worms eat

Worm Food

If top feeding with a product such as Purina Worm Chow, simply sprinkle a small amount on the surface area.

Purina Worm Chow

Now release your worms right on top and leave the top off and keep your worm compost bin in a room with a light on until the worms work down into the newspaper and cardboard. Place the lid on the top bin and you have now setup your worm farm!

red wiggler compost worms

how to make a worm farm

Once your food and bedding has been composted by the worms, usually three to four months, you are ready to setup bin 2 as you did with worm bin 1 with the exception of replacing the Sphagnum Peat with a little of your existing worm bedding material (from bin 1… use enough to make 1″ to 2″ thick bedding). Once completed, lift the top off worm bin 1 and place bin 2 on top. Now place the lid on worm bin 2. Allow to sit for 3 to 4 weeks giving enough time for most of your worms to migrate upwards into bin 2.

how to make a worm farm

Now remove bin 1 and 2. replace bin 2 back on top of your four Tupperware type containers and place lid on top.

You are now ready to harvest the vermicompost from bin 1 to use on your plants!

Repeat this process on a continuous basis.

Bruce

Organic Worm Farm Offered By The Worm Expert

43 comments to How To Make A Worm Farm Composting Bin

  • B.T.

    Thanks Bruce,
    Appreciate the newsletter,have a merry Christmas.I saw you folks getting a bit of cooler weather,can guarantee still warmer than here in Montana!But not willin to trade either.

  • B.T.

    Thanks and you have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year as well…

    As for trading, you definitely win on the scenery however I am already getting cold enough here. Besides getting tired of cutting firewood :-)

    Bruce

  • Alison

    Could not agree with you more about commercially sold worm bins. The best bin I ever had was one sold to me in person by a worm farmer in MI. It was made of a rubbermaid container similar to the ones you show here. My original proved too small, so later, I got a fancy commercial one, and it was terrible! Multi-layer, supposedly so that the worms could work their way up from more composted material to the new stuff, the worms just all fell to the bottom (where it was too damp). Because composted material had shrunk in size, the worms were no longer able to move up to the higher levels where the fresh food was.

    And finally, the straw that broke the camels back was that there were so many gaps in the whole thing that it started attracting and breeding fruit flies and fungus gnats. The original rubbermaid bin I’d bought had large but finely screened ventilation holes only in the lid (which sounds inadequate, but it was enough, because the bin was much shallower than those you’re using here). So the (expensive!) commercial bin is now sitting outside, unused, lo these many years, deteriorating in the sun.

    I have not yet managed to get a working bin going again, as we seem to produce too much household compostables, and the my last attempt got too wet and attracted gnats. The shallower pan worked well, but I’m wary of using a very deep container, since it got too deep and wet for my last worms.

    I’d like to try this setup, but I have a few questions:

    What are the small tups underneath for? Doesn’t the shape of the bins keep them from fully nesting anyhow? Or does the weight of the worms and compost get so heavy that the composing bin will wedge in and become difficult to take out of the lower bin?

    Don’t you lose worms out the holes in the bottom of the compost bin into the base bin?

    How deep do you let the bottom bin get before you start in on the top bin? I guess it has to be deep enough so that the second composting bin can rest on the surface of the compost so that the worms can crawl up (see my earlier comment about the poorly designed commercial bin).

    With this setup, I’d still worry about attracting pests, but I’ve just read about your use of food-grade DE, and that sounds great! I’ll have to get some just in case, when I finally order my worms. From you probably. I’m really enjoying your site.

    Comment: I find that coconut coir is a great starting material, as it’s not as acid as sphagnum, so you don’t have to buffer it with lime/eggshells. It comes in compressed bricks available from gardening centers, or from pet stores as reptile bedding. One brick expands in water overnight to something like three gallons in volume! Great stuff! I’ve also successfully started from just dampened shredded newspaper.

    PS: Looking forward to written plans with diagrams for your sifter. Although it’s probably bigger than what I’ll ever need, it looks so darn well designed and useful! Could use it for sifting garden compost as well…

  • Alison

    The weight of the worm bins with bedding, composted material and worms can sag hence cutting off a good air flow over time. By using the Tupperware type containers, the worm bins sit high enough and receive adequate support to prevent the air flow from underneath from being cut off.

    You will always lose a couple worms here and there through the holes in the bottom. However, if you have a good bedding to start with that the worms feel comfortable with when released into the bin, they are less likely to wander off. Also by giving them adequate food to keep them eating, they will remain where the food is available as long as the environmental conditions are sufficient for them.

    You can allow the bottom worm bin to become about half full of vermicomposted material before adding the second worm bin on top. Being it rests on top the worms can reach it.

    Also, if your worm bin gets to wet, you can add additional shredded newspaper and cardboard without wetting it down. This will help to absorb some of the extra liquids.

    Thanks… As for pests, the better environment kept, the less pests usually evolve. One trick is to keep the food covered over as not to attract as many pests.

    Many folks use coconut coir for bedding… I personally find it very course and takes much longer for the worms to be able to work through it and break it down. As I mentioned, you really only need the peat moss for the initial worm bin. After that you are best off using some existing bedding which will be loaded with aerobic microbes just waiting to get to work in the new worm bin :-)

    Starting with shredded newspaper and cardboard works however take longer to develop and area for the worms to tuck into. If the environmental conditions are not just right, the worms usually tend to try and run… The peat and eventually some existing bedding give them a place to retreat to and feel comfortable in.

    Thanks and yes the sifter can be used for worm castings or as a soil sifter.

    Bruce

  • Jim Hunt

    Hi Bruce,

    In general your ideas and designs are better than any other vermi-website. It’s amazing what a little common sense can accomplish. Keep up the good work–especially on the harvester.

    The only coir I’ve tried is Empire brand Coco-Peat. This product has a lot of the pith and (I suspect) less of the coarse fibers. Most of the fibers are also the short ones. It’s also composted for two years. I suspect that with the proper screen in your harvester, you could extract a very high percent of product that would be fine enough for you and not much more expensive than what you normally use for the African Nightcrawlers. (That’s assuming you could deal with the owner or his dad and also get bulk shipping rates from California.) My Africans LOVE it and grew long and fat very quickly. I haven’t harvested the castings yet, so I don’t know the size and density.

    Despite everything you and Allison said, I still don’t know the placement of the Tupperware type containers. If they go on top of the bedding, it seems that you are taking the next higher bin out of contact with the bedding. If they go under the bottom bin only, that makes more sense to me, but then I have no idea why the height in relationship to holes drilled in the side of a bin would matter. Maybe you could do a sketch for this really dumb old f_rt?

  • Hi Bruce,

    Just from our own experience, I would be wary of using any form of coir or coconut peat. Each time we have used it all of our Alabama Jumpers died within 24-72 hours. It was well soaked and aged, pH was fine, so don’t know what it was in the coir that killed the worms, but it happened 3-4 times. Also, we have done egg laying trials with Africans and find that in coir they consistently lay less eggs than in good quality peat.

    Regards,
    George

  • Jim

    Thanks for the compliment. I do believe some folks just throw something together without real knowledge of an area. Take the worm bin, one can have too much food, moisture, to high a pH but you cannot have to much air flow unless perhaps in a wind tunnel :-)

    Let me know how you make out with the castings after you harvest them.

    Jim, the Tupperware type containers go in the bottom storage bin to support the worm bins themselves. If you have holes on the bottom of a worm bin and place on the floor, the holes become useless.

    The relationship of the holes drilled to the height of the Tupperware type containers in relevant as once your worm bin is placed on top, you want the holes in the bottom bin to be below the worm bin sitting on top. This permits air to flow uninterrupted under the worm bin hence making the holes in the bottom of the worm bin accessible to the air flow and enabling oxygen for your worms.

    Hope that makes sense…

    Bruce

  • George

    Good to hear from you. I did receive your email the other day and will reply to it today.

    I have to agree with you on the coconut coir. However I do believe it has it purposes as in garden areas to replace mulch, some countries use it as a water filter…

    It is amazing of the variables that come into play when it comes to worms. Many folks think that many different materials will work the same when in essence some products are definitely more conducive when it comes to worm production and their health.

    For anyone not familiar with George, he is the owner of Kookaburra Worm Farms, the go to guy to buy worms if you live in Australia. He is the Australian version of myself, always running tests to see what works better, trying new ideas… :-)

    Bruce

  • Alison

    When my bin got too wet this last time, I did add lots of dry material (as I’ve done in the past – never needed drainage holes) but I think an entire jack-o-lantern was too much for my worms… :-/

    I didn’t think my problems were with the coir, and I mixed it with newspaper, but my redworms were trying to escape, so maybe it was the coir. I still have some left, though, so I’ll probably try it again. I’ll watch closely, and if the redworms don’t like it, I’ll stop using it, and just go back to newspaper. I don’t care if it’s a slow start. I might add some fresh compost/dirt if they seemed anxious to leave, though. Do you think it would be a problem to use material from an outside compost pile?

  • Alison

    If using a coarse coconut coir this could be sensitive to their out skin. As for using outside composted material… this should be fine as long as it is composted and has been through the heating process already.

    In fact, I compost through the winter so as to have some bedding material in the spring time :-)

  • Lisa

    I love your site Bruce, have been to others and I treasure your guidance and experience.
    Please continue to help us gain more knowledge and allow us to give back to the earth in fantastic casting and healthy plants.
    I am a small worm raiser and planning on getting bigger each year.
    Because of the support and knowledge you share with us, it allows the rest of us to be better people.
    Thanks,
    Lisa

  • [...] How To Make A Worm Farm Composting Bin [...]

  • Victor

    Hello,
    Bruce your website has really opened my eyes and I am ecstatic about getting started with growing worms and harvesting castings. I have a HIGH demand for these castings because one of my best friends owns a landscaping company and the amount of lawn care we do is a huge part of how we make our business. We do not want to sell the product rather we want to stockpile it in order to stop buying fertilizers and such. I was looking for a direct email but, could not seem to find one. I hope you read this and can reach me soon…
    THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR ANY KNOWLEDGE YOU ARE WILLING TO SHARE,
    Victor

  • kirk simmons

    hello bruce…say you want to build an outdoor in or on ground worm farm, what would be the best construction. we live in north texas and would like to grow the worms for fun and for the garden. i have seen everything from concrete block to wood. i am confused on the proper way to build….what are your thoughts…thanks in advance. kirk

  • Kirk

    Concrete block will not rot and you do not want to use pressure treated lumber. The block will work well as it also over time, will help to maintain moistre.

    Bruce

  • When I made my first vermicompost bin I used damp newspaper freely. The more experience I became, I realized that that the red wigglers thrive if the majority of their bedding is corrugated cardboard. The newspaper, even if damp, doesn’t seem to aerate as well as the corrugated cardboard. Inversely, even though the cardboard holds moisture well, it doesn’t drown out the dilligent worms. My worms seem to be more vibrant and reproduce more often in a cardboard medium. I now use dry newspaper strips to add as filler material in the event the environment gets too moist.

  • Rick in Westtexas

    Hi,
    First of all Im just starting out with my first worm bed. I have been trying to do container and upside down gardening for some time with mixed results. I had great pepper plants last year but didnt produce one pepper. Tried all types of things but nothing. Fall came and so did a ton of leaves.
    I decided to mulch all of them and start a compost pile. Was sitting at starbucks with a friend (smelling the coffee cant drink it) and I thought about the coffee grounds. Talked to the manager and now I get about 20 lbs of grounds a week to add to my compost pile along with lawn clippings.
    Took this mix and what potting soil I had and mixed it all up. This is what I will be using this year.

    Can I ask you a couple of questions?
    1. LOL how did you get started in all this?
    2. I have started a worm bed in 3- 5 gal buckets. Bottom one to catch fluid, middle has drilled holes (lots of small ones to drain fluid and is currently where the worms and bedding is, then the top one I have cut long slots in the bottom so when the middle bucked reaches my full mark I can place this one on top and worms can go into it to reach new food. All of these have holes drilled around the top for air flow including lid.
    No did not want to get the big bends as Im limited to room. I also have a free supply of nice 5 gal buckets.
    So with this in mind could you offer any suggestions on the setup I have?.
    3. I can see this can grow quickly if it works. So just how many worms can say 50 night-crawlers produce say in a couple of months? At what point do I need to split the bed to prevent over crowding?
    4. As my name states Im in West Texas, Lubbock to be exact. Temps here can range from 90′s to 110. I dont have any fancy buildings to keep them in a controlled temp area. I do have areas in my back yard that have constant shade.
    My goal is to have a constant supply of bedding to use during the growing season. How can I, keep them cool enough out side during these temps?
    Sorry Lots of questions so I will stop here for now. I must warn you I have lots of them. LOL
    Thanks

  • Tim

    how do the worms get from bin 1 to bin 2? through the holes drilled in the bottom?

  • Tim

    Worms naturally find their way to food sources, hence by placing the fresh bedding and food on top of the older bin, the worms will crawl through the holes drilled in the bottom of the top bin over a period of time.

    Bruce

  • Rick

    Congrats on getting your first worm bin started… maybe you will get hooked like the rest of us nuts :-)

    I was raising worms for fishing for myself and some friends and family as well since I was a young teenager. For many years I was a fan of Miracle Grow until I tried my first batch of worm castings and worm tea. I have not touched another bag of fertilizer since… many years ago. This is when I decided to grow more worms and then began experimenting which I still do today.

    Rick it sounds as if you have a good setup. The one thing I found with 1/8″ holes on the bottom of red wigglers and Alabama jumpers in five gallon buckets is that many were escaping through these holes. Perhaps a smaller hole would work? I am also playing with 2 five gallon buckets of red wigglers currently. I have just started these a couple days ago and will post any good results I obtain from them here.

    The number of worms per cubic foot of bedding material varies. For breeders… European nightcrawlers I go roughly 1 to 1 1/2 pounds per cubic foot as well as the same for the grow bins. African nightcrawlers for breeding purposes I can go up to 800 or about 5 pounds per cubic foot as well as grow them out in this ratio.

    A long time ago I posted an article on building a homemade worm bin heater which I was thinking of trying to adapt a little differently for the summer time. Remove the aquarium heater and dig a hole in the ground to bury the five gallon bucket, leaving enough exposed to add more water when needed. This should help cool it. For inside a building my idea was to replace the hose and run up to a homemade swamp cooler which would recycle back into the bucket buried in the ground.

    Hope this helps for now until the next batch of questions arrive :-)

    Bruce

  • Kevin

    Yes what you are finding holds true and apparently has to do also with the glue used in the corrugated cardboard. I do not know if the glue actually has any nutritional value as I have heard from others stating both ways, however they do like it and will get up underneath the cardboard and congregate there.

    Thanks for sharing.

    Bruce

  • Bruce,

    I have hear that it has a lot to do with some form of a protein based glue that goes in the corrugated cardboard. I always thought it was odd considering other protein based thinks such as dairy and meats are off limits in a red worm bin.

  • Kevin

    Yes and some things to appear to be odd, however different proteins and even fats such as the ones in Purina Worm Chow are OK for worms and actually good for them.

    Thanks

    Bruce

  • Dawn

    Thanks for posting this. My husband and I want to start vermicomposting because we live in an apartment and it is very space efficient. I did have some questions:

    1) I shred a lot of my receipts which are printed on thermal paper. I don’t receive the newspaper, so I’d really like to use the shredded receipts. Is that okay, or will the coating be bad for the worms?

    2) What is the per person capacity of this particular design? I don’t think I saw it anywhere on the site and it would be a great bit of information.

    Thanks!

  • I am wanting to start a worm bed and have a couple ?’s for someone if you would please…I rememeber my grandpa raised his worms in a medium sized chest freezer with dirt, scraps and paper. Has anyone else ever done this? I remember all the thousands of worms that was in there, fat healthy worms. He would take a pitch fork and turn the dirt to get us some to go fishing. I just don’t understand why you have to have all these tubs drilling holes in them etc. I was wondering if anyone has tried raising worms in a freezer…thanks! Nancy

  • Nancy

    Yes you can use a freezer and you are correct about the holes on the bottom as long as you do not add to much moisture. In fact we just wrote the first of several articles to come just on this topic of not having to drill holes on the bottom. Facts on Raising Worms Part 1.

    You will need ventilation near the top for aeration for the worms but that is it.

    Bruce

  • Ernie

    Hi bill I have just started a worm bin and have read a lot of posts on your site thanks for the help but ive had my worms in for a week now and when i pull the cover to feed worm chow i notice a musty or moldy smell. I bought a moisture meter before i started and im sure my bedding isnt to moist and have been letting fresh air in and around the worm bin. Is this something i should worry about? thanks for your help.

  • Dawn

    I have never tried the thermal paper, however would be cautious as I am not sure of the coating makeup. You could try it in a corner of a worm bin to see how it works out. Usually corner stores will allow you to have their newspapers during the week that don’t sell. They may have to check with their supplier to wait and allow them to cut the top of the front page… I guess there is a market for yesterday’s news :-)

    As for part two this gets complicated based on ones eating habits :-) A McDonald’s junkie is not going to have the same scraps as a vegetarian that eats at home twice a day…

    A good rule of thumb is at least 1 cubic foot of bedding material to one pound of worms. Figuring that once the worms settle in and the scraps begin to break down, they will consume 1/2 pound of scraps per day per pound of worms. Under ideal conditions they can consume more, however start with the 1/2 pound per day and see how it goes.

    Let us know how you make out on the thermal paper.

    Bruce

  • Ernie

    If you are not too moist it sounds as if it might be a ventilation issue. Either remove the top and see how it goes or try drilling more holes. You might even try a fan.

    Bruce

  • Dixie

    I started my worm farm in January with one container and one pound of Red Wigglers. Things went very well and about two months ago I divided my worms and have two bins now. The worms are doing great but I have noticed lately when I open my bins to place vegetable scrapes in them there are a lot of knats inside. Is this bad?

    Dixie

  • Dixie

    Normally not an issue unless they get out of hand.

    Fungus gnats are basically attracted to a moist environment and organic matter. Drying out the top of the worm bin will help to get rid of them.

    Another effective means too is to mix some food grade Diatomacious Earth in with the bedding when making it. Otherwise when the worms are not on the surface, dust the top of the bed and spritz it down lightly. It appears what I have found is that the Diatomaceous Earth when wet does not effect the worms. However it appears the larva when eating can consume some and it wrecks havoc on them not allowing most to reach maturity, hence eventually getting rid of them.

    Bruce

  • ERS

    My problem is I never get any migration this way – or at least not enough to not have to still do a migration by hand. I have tried with the new bin on top and the new bin on bottom. I would say each time 75% of the worms stayed in old bin, even after a month or two.

    Now I just keep them in 3-4 bins side by side and do migrations by hand.

  • Love your site. We are a soon to be farm and are looking for a way to build a very large farm got any suggestions. Will have a 5-10 acre garden.
    Thks

  • Teddi

    Give me a call or email when you get a chance… will see what we can assist you on… Number and email form can be found at http://OrderWorms.com under contact us.

    Bruce

  • RayK

    I’m new to all of this and doing some research to see if it will be worthwhile to raise worms to feed my chickens (40 layers). I have access to plenty of goat manure, used bedding, and hay (if I can find some way to chop it). Plastic Goat Protein Tubs will make nice stackable beds.

    My concern is how to keep the worm beds from freezing in the winter. I can use the barn to stack them but it’s not heated at all.

    Any suggestions??

    Thanks

    Ray

  • Ray

    I have plans and even just updated today a new article on keeping worms warm during the colder months.

    Bruce

  • Jerry Alexander

    I`m going to try to set up a Compost in my plastic covered garden in hopes of producing enough heat to keep my plants for dying.Has anyone ever heard of anyone doing such a thing?

  • Bruce,
    Great information here so of the best I have found on the inernet. I have heard 2 school of thoughts on feeding the worms the rine from oranges, lemons, & other citris fruit. I have read where it is okay in moderation, makes sense. I have also read where it give off a toxin that will posion the worms.

    Your thoughts?

  • I discovered a little trick when drilling the holes. Use one drill size smaller than recommended, drilling from the outside. Then using the correct size from the inside will eleminate the hanging chad that is normally on the inside. Doing this though a little more work cleans up the holes rather nice.

  • Gramps

    Thanks and this is exactly why we post articles. We appreciate ideas from others that have come up with additional information and or techniques which can improve on what we write.

    Thanks again,

    Bruce

  • Gramps

    You are talking acidic acid here. I usually concur most anything in moderation with the exception of meats, dairy products… I have tried some orange peels in the past. My findings were that the worms ran from the areas where the peels were laid in the worm bins. hence this tells me worms do not prefer the citric acid and would rather have a big steak (lettuce) !

    Bruce

  • Alison

    You mean acetic acid? Like in vinegar? Citric acid is what’s in citrus fruits. Also, I’ve read that it’s not the acid, but the citrus oils (limonene) that may be toxic to worms. That said, most people (from other forum postings I’ve read) seem to have no trouble vermicomposting citrus fruits, or any other very acidic items either, like tomatoes.

  • Alison

    When composting worms using food scraps I cannot stress enough everything in moderation. I got a kick this past year how the US government listed pizza as a vegetable since it had tomato sauce. In reality tomatoes are a fruit not a vegetable.

    Yes tomatoes are high in citric acid the same as Oranges and Lemons… Again they can be OK to use but in moderation.

    Bruce

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